I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. Well this article outlines a variety of statistics which will help you pinpoint which areas of the game you are above or below average. Will I be digging too much? Driver: G425 LST 9on Fujikura VENTUSBlue 5S, Fairway: G425LST 3w on Fujikura VENTUSBlue 6S, G425MAX 9won Graphite Design Tour ADDI7S, Utility: KING Forged Utility Black 4 on UST RECOIL SMACWRAP, Irons: KING Forged TEC Black5-Gon Mitsubishi MMT, Wedges:ES2154& Hi Toe Raw58on KBS Hi Rev 2.0, Putter: Triple Track Double Wide White Hot, Balls: Pro V1TP5xChrome Soft Triple Track x LS. Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. Undershooter Couldn't agree more with your entire post. The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. This is even less a personal thing than the grip with very little variation, there is a single way to set up to a golf ball to help a good golf swing happen. This is especially true of clubs made with long hosels. The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 A 1 degree lie angle change, either flat or more upright, can cause a 4-yard difference either left or right of a straight target. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lofts (plus minus 2*) pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. Generally though as you decrease theloft of a club by one degree, you reduce its bounce a degree at the same time and if you increase the loft by one degree you increase the bounce by a degree. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. Free shipping for many products! Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 And here is why. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. on tight fairways. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Feb 3, 2013. Often, golfers think they need to make more birdies in order to score better or become a better golfer, when in reality it is minimizing the bad shots and bad holes that can have more impact. Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. What are you trying to achieve? We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. I meant decrease loft and make stronger. Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. Best of luck.Chuck. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X Privacy Policy Will it affect offset? Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ How Much Does 1 Degree of Loft Affect Distance? Bending irons 2 degrees stronger | Golf Monthly Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Clear editor. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! sorry, didnt mean increase loft. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. Im also adding a 5 wood to the bag and changing to a 54/60 wedge set-up. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. Hes happy to answer any of your questions! Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? But there is a lot more to it than that. 5 Testers Needed! I will also need to bend my irons 2 degrees flat according to a lie board. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. Brent Grant always brings the energy ?? Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X St Louis, MO. Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? Thats why I recommend that golfers get fit for irons on golf radar by a certified fitter who understands how loft and COG work together in iron design. St Louis, MO. I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. would 2 degrees be too much and change the club's characteristics too much? Copyright 2020 GolfWRX Holdings, LLC. 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. Driver: Cobra Amp Cell Pro (8.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila RIP Phenom 3-wood: Titleist 906F4 (13.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila NV 7-wood: Michael Hopper whats in the bag accurate as of the WM Phoenix Open. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? What Does 2 Degrees Flat Mean: Club Fitting Info to Help You However, even a degree difference can affect the direction where the ball might start out and can be the difference between you hitting the green, and you landing in a bunker! To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. The market is fascinating this week, with world number 376 Andrew Novak leading the field. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. Should I have my new 3-Iron Bent 1 Degree Strong? there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. Some 5-irons are 27. Albion, MI 49224 Great article. Or, is the bounce all the same? It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. I am constantly amazed at how many golfers are trying to play the game with a fundamentally unsound hold of the club. Seriously. Mizuno irons can be adjusted to varying degrees depending on model and material type. The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. (more on this down below). Furthermore, he was 15th at the end of the first round on debut here last year and 11th after Thursdays round at the correlative Corales in the Dominican Republic. Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. JavaScript is disabled. I think it depends on the player and his swing. The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. I know my distances with the Ping set too well and I dont want to go through a whole season of trial-and-error with new irons, so would it make sense to have my new Mizuno irons bent to the old Ping specs? 1001 Industrial Blvd The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. That means judging any of this due to the club head alone and isolated makes no sense, we have to include the player and his delivery of the head since thats what matters for if we can / should go weaker or stronger or leave it as it is. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. Display as a link instead, Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. More photos from the event here. As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* GolfWRX_Official It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. Generally bending lofts on irons unless you are tweaking them to even out a gap. Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. Justin Rose posts mysterious custom JR irons on Instagram. We have seen significant distance improvements with all 3 of these irons, it just needs to match up with how you launch the ball. Contact Us Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. IG: golfer_scott That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Sounds like it's a long iron. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. 2. Below, you'll see the results. Don't think you'd notice a difference of 2. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW A good tune-up is a good tune-up regardless of the final loft gaps. Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! I suspect Ill be waiting a very long time, Amen, finally some one with great insight. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 If you've got 2* upright and don't need that configuration, the heel will dig in and you'd pull the shots left (right handed). This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW Even with limitations, many of todays metal woods are indeed bendable, especially stainless-steel heads. Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver I've bent tons of clubs. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. You dont need to bend the clubs. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Good question. Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. Including me. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. I know it will increase the bounce. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. Everyone's comments are super helpful! Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Sounds like it's a long iron. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. Shane Lowry on the new Srixon ZX Mk II line (fairway wood, utility, ZX5/ZX7 irons). And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. Display as a link instead, Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. I would never ever think of doing this on my own. Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. A lot of mixing and matching The MB and CB clubs you have need a bit more loft to get the ball launched well. "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? The reason this happens has to do with an iron's center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an iron's COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. I also don't mind the little more offset I don't over cut it. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. IG: golfer_scott If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. Not going to dig any more than normal. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. Hybrid: Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0, 2 iron: Mizuno MP-20 HMB, Steelfiber i95 S, 39.5", Irons grab bag: 1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 3-AW Pinhawk Vertex irons, Apollo std stepped S Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. JavaScript is disabled. So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. Might actually help on hard ground. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. All rights reserved. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. That is why getting the numbers is so important. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). In turn creating around 12 more yds. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM Terms & Conditions Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. Youll be amazed at the difference a properly fit set of irons can make to your game. Keep the loft the same and take an extra club for the shot. Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company Your email address will not be published. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. (I ran into this today.) From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. By Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:).