Now thats hilarious. Ruger already dominates the American handgun market, and they are very profitable, so it may not have been worth it to them. The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. In September 2014, LooserRounds posted an article titled FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection. The new .50Ae desert eagle has as much recoil as the 1911/M45 which is unrealistc (the .45 has alot less recoil). Should be Marine Commanders Have.. Each of the operators has his own preference. The amount of energy a bullet radiates into a target is determined by a simple formula taught in high school: Its the product of one half the projectiles mass times the square of the velocity. This post has been updated to include information released by the FBI regarding the weapon used in the shooting. Sign up now to get our latest stories and eye-opening briefings. This includes victims shot by suspetcs and suspects shot by our officers. He didnt get more than three feet from the bathroom. If youve ever spent anytime shooting steel then you would know which one will take someone off their feet quicker. Just some REAL world observation not keyboard commando stuff. False. Between 14 and 45 , flak jacket and 5 mag 20 7.76 stayed in shape. I think it is more the exception than the rule. The 1986 FBI Miami shootout between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers was the deadliest and most violent shootout in FBI history. 45 standard velocity is 850 to 900 fps, NOT 500 fps. The 9mm is a typical government one-size-fits-all solution. Dr. Peter Rhee is a trauma surgeon who operated on victims of the 2011 shooting at a political event in Tucson, Arizona, in which six people were killed and 13 wounded in a hail of 9mm bullets. A pellet traveling at 450 fps (feet per second) can cause serious injury or death to a human depending on the type of pellet and the location of the impact. I own one of each 9mil Ruger,Capacity 17 rounds,CZ 45 10 rounds.For stopping power at close range ,I prefer the 45.It is harder to conceal because of its size and weight.The Ruger 9 mil is easier to carry concealed,And a whole lot lighter.Both are comfortable to shoot,to me.A 45 is not for everyone.If you carry concealed the weapon of chose is what you are comfortable with.Handling and performance,depends on the owner.The Military has been changing weapons since day one.I suppose it usually comes down who can supply what the military wants and how much they cost.I personally have handled the Glock 17 and the 19 and dont care for them.I prefer the Ruger or the CZ. handgun on the UN Side. I would challenge anyone to shoot a 9mm against my 45 and, I promise my 45 will be the 9mm all day everyday. However, for the civilian this is generally an impractical plan for a variety of reasons. Creatine is an amino acid located mostly in your body's muscles as well as in the brain. I leave distinguishing the difference for law enforcement and military.In the moment of truth youre either going to hit properly or not. Train! Involved in a shooting with my partner. The beautiful country in south east Asia. But good luck with and please enjoy the new Glock! The .223 generates a far larger shock wave, and penetrates farther, than the .22. I was shot with a 45acp in my right leg. More rounds the better. Only high-velocity rounds (those with an impact velocity of 2,000 feet per second or more) with soft or hollow points reliably offer fragmentation. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. Circulatory collapse results from massive bleeding caused by bullet wounds primarily to the heart, other major organs or major blood vessels of the torso. Thats a problem, because the force that continues to propel the bullet has essentially been wasted, not transferred to the target. Chris Bartocci on a YouTube video explains why MARSOC went away from this 1911. This may be called Tools or use an icon like the cog. A lot. .4570, .454 Casull and .460 Super Mag are all tremendously powerful. I have yet to see any really legit fair and unbiased comparison of the 9mm and 45acp calibers. Its hesitation that makes people miss. Because recoil obviously cant be observed and you have to shoot someone huh, I heard of a police officer shooting a dog 6 times with a 9 mm before being able to incapacitate the dog. Any weapon is only as good as its owner, making the person behind the trigger the single greatest factor in how much stopping power a gun ultimately yields. I thought I would never own a 9 mm. I have my personal preferences and it is the .45 ACP, next is the 40 S&W, down the line a couple of notches is the 9mm. I just got a glock30SF and im thinking of adding her to the g27 for my CC permit. 125 gr 9 mm PB fully jacketed bullet will generally penetrate both skins of a car door. The military is basing their decisions on dollars not dependability not the servicemans life! Interesting. For this reason, some dismiss magnum rounds altogether and sing the praises of the S&W .40 round, which supposedly combines the best features of the .45 ACP and the 9mm. WebCapitola Mansion Apartments, Off Grid Cabin Canada, Seth Smith Actor Age, Parma High School Football Schedule, Roxiticus Country Club Membership Fees, Jquery Time Slot Booking Calendar, 45 Acp Damage Human Body, Maricopa News Shooting, Tws I12 Keeps Powering Off, Long Term Rentals Camber Sands, But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. First off when you call a magazine a CLIP, everything you say is null and void as far as Im concerned. And other trauma surgeons are on record as saying that they cannot tell the difference between wounds caused by 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. You prefer the .45 for stopping power? are 9mm rounds substantially more accurate than their larger caliber brethren? The Ruger SR1911 is comfortable for some reason and I have considered getting one from time to time. Practice thats all it takes. Do you really think that all of SOCOM is using rifles and SMGs, and the Marines are using pistols? I Have hair and an angular face. 25 yard 1.52 off hand 5 rnd groups on the nose. A .20 gauge double barrel should be good for home defense day for a woman or a guy. Hollow point bullets are superior to round-nosed ones. The threshold for lung damage occurs at about 15 psi blast overpressure. I think its preference and if you can conceal it. We report stories that would go untold. How does air resistance have ANYTHING to do with the terminal ballistics as they relate to penetration? Poor light and unplanned obstacles are common in real-life self-defense scenarios. This was an interesting discussion. The 9 mm and the round for the 9 mm is by far the cheaper not the better choice! I like all of them. Weband 45 expands slightly more than 9 mm This also depends on specific round construction. Unfortunately, there is no valid, scientific method of analyzing actual shooting incidents. Or 45 cal quickly changes the perspective f the individual. Thats just because most folks never have to shoot someone firing at them. I would easily give credit to the Colt 45 on reliability accuracy and range, my 9mm all it really does better is shoot faster because it has a 4 lb. and that the data you submit is exempt from Do Not Sell My Personal Information requests. Most of these wanna be gangsters are cowards and are used to shooting at people who dont have guns to shoot back. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, my rule is that I will carry the heaviest, store bought self defense round that I can buy. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. So any caliber is better than none. And while its not the final word on wound ballistics, its an important contribution to what should be an ongoing discussion. The 45s power and bullet size vs. the 9 mm Luger round was But whats the long term average? SGT SmallwoodUSMC/LTC SmallwoodUSArmy retired. Fire Rate: 850 rounds/minute. Scratch expensive 45s. I have been hand loading my rifle and pistol ammo since 1975. His chest was gurgling and slurping. Sick and tried of people not in the field deciding what is best for those in the field. PS: I forgot to mention that as a SAW gunner I was allowed to carry an old .45 (Springfield Armory). Heck a well placed .22 in the head can get the job done. The tests resulted in the selection in 1989 of the 10mm bullet as the most effective and accurate round for FBI agents to carry. For me the argument is how the pistol or revolver feels in my hand and how accurately can shoot it. The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it hits its target with more energy. Along that line of thought, I bought my tiny little 24 year old niece a pistol when she moved to Kansas by herself. I carry 9mm JHP for EDC and also use JHP in the .40 High Point. Yes, Im another old Viet Nam Vet. Handgun caliber and size is to each is own. As might be expected, larger-diameter bullets produce more devastating wound cavities and have a greater likelihood of striking vital organs. The reason is recoil. G19 vs custom 1911 equals a big price difference. R45 Ammo Type: .45 ACP. Not so with rifles with muzzle velocities of 2800-4000 fps, depending on the caliber. I daily now carry a 9 mm. My Kimber .45 is one of my favorite pistols EVER, but its heavy and only has 8 rounds. I used to work in inner city and poor crime ridden areas when all I had was the 45. I believe politics carries the most weight.The military sidearm is the least political concern as far as what other weapons are available for them.The beretta was a good example.Far from the best weapon compared to sig & glock,it got us a deal to put missles in Italy . I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. But the guy kept on coming. Have you ever saw the wound track from a .230 hst. 5.56 NATO in .223 Rem could result in failures. Shot placement is not a variable, it is a constant. Thats why were here right? Psychological factors play a much greater role. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! WebAs shown in Fig. You shoot when you can, at the place you most want. 9mm doesnt work so well one at a time from a pistol, but we didnt have any expectation that it would. The original FBI testing of bullets conducted in the late 1980s involved testing the Winchester 147 grain subsonic hollow point 9mm round, the Remington 185 grain hollow point .45 round and a 10mm 180 grain hollow point round. And the quicker the better when someones fanning a gun at you. I think everyone should think back to why the 1911 was made. Your skull is very thick in places (base of the skull) and some bullets arent designed for that kind of penetration. Temporary cavity is often grossly overrated as a wounding factor, but has historically been one of the primary methods for measuring effectiveness. Guy KEPT COMING and managed to shoot back twice. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. Your tax-deductible donation to The Trace will directly support nonprofit journalism on gun violence and its effects on our communities. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter (i.e., recoil) and he too would be knocked down. What a joke! If I remember my undergraduate physics, acceleration is defined as a change in velocity or a change in vector. Tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms: There are two places that we know will incapacitate a man every time they are hit: the brain and the upper spinal column. For members of the hand-cannon clique, toting a weapon loaded with anything less is just asking to be shot or killed by street punks who are feelin lucky.. The money has to come from somewhere. Of course, not being in the military, or law enforcement, my goal is no collateral damage! The body's liver, pancreas and kidneys also can make about 1 gram of creatine per day. To me the rest dont count. Thats the secret. Ive never liked Glock its sure a well made gun but definitely NOT the best gun Ive shot. They said, ja, the 9mm kills people just fine, as long as you use it the way anyone with any sense uses a pistol caliber. Request a quote for the most accurate & reliable non-lethal training, A shootout that killed multiple FBI agents underscores the need for cops to use bullets that will neutralize an adversary as quickly as possible. Fortunately, physiological factors are often not the deciding factor. I shot 8 watermelons, 4 for each gun. During each tour I was personally involved multiple combat engagements. Wouldnt waste my money on it. I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. I have never shot a people. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. Looking back at the stories we told, and which stuck with us, during an eventful year. As where the .45, would dislodge the silhouette every time with a single shot. 0.177" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 300 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. If you shoot someone through the skull with a .22 rimfire and penetrate their brain, you will almost certainly immediately incapacitate them. I shot Master for a while. It got up and walked about 25 yards before falling. The story makes that even sound too few. I have shot many different calibers. About 5 yrs ago I read a document comparing the damage to a human body wearing, at the time, state of the art LE body armor. I have several 1911 pistols. Of course shot placement is important. You would think he would know a thing or two about firearms and ballistics with a title like that. I have small hands for a guy but I have no problems with accuracy. Im 73 yoa. True, Or not? I have also read that the 124gr NATO round is a +P. .45 ACP damage increased from 35-40-65 to 35-40-75, and minimum damage decreased from 60% to 50%. WebRock Island Armory 1911 Rock Ultra CS Fiber Optic 45 ACP Sub-Compact 7-Round Pistol $ 679 99 679 dollars 99 cents $ 699 99 699 dollars 99 cents. My neighbor saw that the guy was afraid of the thing and couldnt get back on target after the 1st shot due to the recoil and his flinching with every shot. interacts online and researches product purchases Love reading your stuff. 10 Best ways to Make Money on Social Media and not waste time. Riley, love your artical. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy of the human body Wellcome L0024128.jpg 1,100 1,796; 960 KB. The 45 deer had busted bones and bullets still within them. But in summer I have just discovered the Sig Sauer P938, a 9mm 7+1 with extended magazine. Everyone should be mocking the .223 as a pea shooter. One other thing that is interesting to note, during a military engagement in which soldiers were issued .38-caliber sidearms, they found that the bullets were ineffective against the natives who were fond of using drugs before engaging in combat, and thus were numbed to the impacts of the bullets. Good job! You will find that when tested in this manner the 45acp will out perform the 9mm hands down. Doctors later determined that this round was not survivable. You may be knocked down and have to squeeze off a once and last shot to save you life. Because of the impracticality of training for headshots, this examination of handgun wounding relative to law enforcement use is focused upon torso wounds and the probable results. How about a discussion of American made vs foreign made weapons for our military? It might be bigger, but bigger isnt always better. I can shoot consistently accurately. The guys that could handle the .45, all preferred it. In those 53 years, weve built a reputation as one of Texass most trusted firearms dealers, and we did it in a state where sellers of used guns are almost as common as oil wells and prime rib. There are already documented instances where .45 ACP also failed to get reliable stops on a bad guy. Physiologically, a highly motivated target can only be destroyed by hitting the brain or the upper spinal column. On a side note, this is the recent trend move away from larger calibers to smaller ones. So its purpose is based on design. career to carry a Glock 9mm. Thats my two cents for what its worth. Then moved to 10mm (after the 1986 Miami shootout). Affiliate Disclosure-Terms of Use-Privacy Policy - Returns & Refunds - Shipping & Delivery - Affiliates, This story of a Chicago-suburb police officer. To each his own. Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. 2.1 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Arming Yourself: A Woman's Guide to Self Defense and Concealed Carry (CCW), Protecting Your Family: A Parent's Guide to Self Defense and Concealed Carry (CCW), Arming the Elderly: A Self-Defense Guide for Senior Citizens, Holsters for Self Defense: A Guide to Carrying Concealed, Arming Toddlers and The "Kinder-Guardians" Program: A Shamefully Bad Idea, Self Defense for LGBT: Self-Protection and Concealed Carry (CCW) for the LGBT Community, Arming the Disabled: A Self-Defense and Concealed Carry Guide for People With Disabilities. who proved the .45-caliber round has SO MUCH more knockdown power than the 9mm that it only requires one shot to incapacitate a threat? So, have you experienced shooting someone at close range with each caliber to determine the stopping power of each round? Tissue inside the human body is remarkably elastic, even vital organs such as the lungs, bowels or circulatory system. Well, depends on whom you ask. Matthew McConaughey tells the story of those killed in Uvalde in emotional plea for action on guns. .45 Actually killed to individual who I shot vs the others who all but one lived. .45 acp is a good round and I prefer it used in close quarter environments becuse it is heavier and pack more energy. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy Wellcome L0024127.jpg 1,080 1,787; 799 KB. Laboratory studies of fish have found plastics can cause harm to reproductive systems and stress the liver. Mr. I don't know about you, but my .45's seem to be plenty accurate, certainly as precise as any of my 9mm pistols. The fifteen round magazine contributes to the spray and pray thinking while the 1911 makes one concentrate on placing the shot. A 50-60gr 9mm bullet that obtains 2000 fps. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. The above referenced expert needs to stick with whatever he may really be an expert at. I seen it first hand as well. However, the round stopped just short of entering Platts heart/aorta, only penetrating his torso about six or seven inches. So, is the 9mm the ultimate handgun around? I will never personally take a life if I have the chance to stop someone with a non lethal GSW. The officer fired three round from his 9mm Baretta 92F. However, if the bullet lacks a JHP configuration, then its not doing as well as it could. All this newer powder and more efficient bullets. People have walked off from head shot wounds from the venerable .45, .38 mag, etc. pulverizing bones, tearing blood vessels and liquefying organs. She remembered one young man who was admitted to her emergency room with an abdominal wound from a hollow-point round. This is what can incapacitate a target, even with a poorly placed torso shot.
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