less to start.) I went to the grocery store to buy a loath of bread.. Recoil was so nasty that I quit after five shots and saved the rest of the box for my 6 Model 19 .357. I haven't used any of those powders but I like faster powders in 38 Special like Titegroup and Clays. My grandkids think Im pulling their leg, when I tell them about the freedoms that NIMBYs took away. I reload a 3 CA Bulldog in .44 with 200 gr wadcutters, to recreate the Man Stopper loads of long ago. Very little recoil, and grouped acceptably out to 15 yards or so. Interestingly, I had pistols that would shoot one well and the other impressively, but have not yet had one pistol do magic with both. You trade a little less speed for a little more mass but at snubnose velocities I really think the standard 158 grain slug gives the best penetration. 10 for a full cylinder. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). Thats not quite how that works. For those folks shooting a lot of lead bullets, invest in a Lewis lead remover. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. 25 Auto 32 H&R Magnum 32 Auto 32 S&W Long 357 Magnum 38 Special 38 Special +P 38 Super Auto +P 380 Auto 40 S&W 44 Rem. Bonus is the CT #305 grips are both large enough to be actually useful, and can use the laser, or turn it off if you dont need the laser. Horrible 5-12" groups at 25 yds. In the 1950s, 60s. I load my own, 130 gr RNFP using Win 231 powder a little over the mid point in the published load data. Both are excellent fight stoppers. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! I use 3 gr. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. 1.455 in. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets - Bullseye Forum As example, 5.8 6.0 grains UNIQUE with a 125 grain HP in a snub nose .357 revolver. I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. The .38 Special remains very popular for personal protection and Michelle Hamilton shares her thoughts on the top loads for concealed carry, like this 158-grain SWCHP FBI Load, based on her testing. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. 32 S&W Long 15,000 hard cast LSWC's as a target load. SASS# 85224. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 By These have a good profile- longer at the top where the middle finger rides, and shorter where the pinkie rests. Just an FYI. But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. 38 special is a great cartridge. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). What are YOU shooting? 2.7 gr. 38 Special +P 18,500 That revolver is aluminum and cannot handle the pressure of 9MM. Last time we took it to the range, I was trying to cycle the old +P ammo to load standard Lehigh ammo, I fired one shot, put the gun down and cursed while shaking my hand. As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. Thats what the Cavalry Board asked for over a century ago, and thats what weve got. I was looking through the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual and see the bullets you are talking about. 38 Special 158gr. JHP Load? | Glock Talk Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. .38 special has got to be one of the best calibers there is . In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. Javascript is required. A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air. Oh, I practice with it. They all shot horrible at 25 yards. Load manuals often advise against downloading .38 Special jacketed loads to prevent squibs, especially the 110 and 125 grain bullets. Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 Magnum (because no 6-inch Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver was on hand). I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. Ive loaded some wadcutters to the point of being flush with the case mouth and big lead bullets almost to the front of the cylinder. (For those who would. Were all familiar with the old adage, Never bring a knife to a gunfight. And while we should, The active shooter is a relatively new phenomenon in the grand scheme of things. People who prepare usually tend to focus on the survival basics: security/self-defense, water, food, first aid, sanitation/hygiene, knowing when to get out and when to stay put. Easy to reload and it started my reloading experience. I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. I guess its out of production now- I havent seen it (or heard of it) in years. When using a 158 gr. ES 27 SD 12 Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose MV 892 fps ME 230 ft./lbs. Midway has it in stock. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. Most modern revolvers chambered for .38 SPL are rated to +P, so there is room for error, but care must still be taken. This is my plink load for the kids. Like both the .38 and the .44 spl. 358430 (195 grain) round nose bullet that was used in the old 200 grain police loads as there is always interest in these. Brass collection is easy since it doesnt eject. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. I burned up about 300 of them before giving up. Both have fed 100% in a variety of pistols and have shot very well. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets, Re: WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets. All right are Reserved Reload Ammo, Reloading The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), hi=849 lo=728 ES=122 (powder up and down), hi=821 lo=684 ES=137 (powder up and down), hi=815 lo=637 ES=178 (powder in normal positions), hi=714 lo=549 ES=165 (powder up and down), hi=758 lo=693 ES=65 (powder up and down)(DO NOT USE LESS), Hi=886, Lo=861, ES=25 (This is a Carolina Cast bullet SWC-great cowboy load), hi=859 lo=743 ES=116 *(my personal medium load), hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down), hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down), hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down), hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down), hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14 bbl. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. How can I tell if they are cast or swaged? You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. You have entered an incorrect email address! What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. It was introduced in 1902 by Smith & Wesson, and has since become a worldwide cartridge. If you are new to reloading. 125 grain plated flat point in 38 Special - Forums Hollow points are not. YMMV. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. I have tried several different grips before finding the one that worked for me. .38 Special Montana Gold 125 FMJ Power Pistol 6.1 COL 1.417 Tested with a S&W-686-3, 6", ambient temperature about 32 degrees, no wind, target posted at 25 feet (hey, I'm testing handloads for use, not my long range bear killing skills, defensive only). How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. For me, the 32 H&R Mag is my 357 Mag, and the 32 S&W Long is my 38 SPL. IT'S A COMBINATION TAPER AND ROLL CRIMP. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted. Designed in 1898, the .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge went on . Fast burning and consistent Economical and accurate Principal Purpose: Handgun loads Remarks: America's best known pistol powder. 2 and No. Zero 158 grain swaged SWC, Starline brass, Winchester or Federal primer, 2.8 grains of Bullseye, roll crimp. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. Clear editor. Initially I shot them out of my Dads prized Smith & Wesson 686 and learned a great deal about double-action shooting and what a truly accurate handgun can do with a wadcutter. Give me a .38 Special Recipe Please | Ruger Forum May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Note: More and more test are conducted with all rounds fired with powder UP against the primer for each shot, or DOWN on the bullet for each shot, then gently bring to horizontal to shoot. When you say "not working" can you be more specific? I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) - Load Data My experience has always been with bullseye powder. 8.) @ Grumpy- I tried LOTS of grips on S&W revolvers. A little shopping around might do better, as would casting the lead bullets. 100 except where otherwise noted in "remarks" Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. These are hand loads.. load data was published in Lyman 50th edition.. You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Pick up any current gun magazine and youll be inundated with images of sexy black rifles. These loads are for my wife's revolver. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. Therefore, the conventional wisdom is that they must be loaded to a lower velocity. A chameleon depending on your loads and the barrel length or action its fired from. I.E. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. The 36s greater weight makes it much easier to shoot than the 638. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. Re: 38 special loads by GrumpyOldMan 11/10/2013, 4:23 pm IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. Current J frame factory grips have similar features and are made of a stiffer compound. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. I dunno. But not too tough. If all you practice with is the easy comfortable stuff, its not really practice. On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. The Model 19 is fine with .38s but mildly uncomfortable with .357s. looks like today. I completely understand the respect for the performance of the 327 Fed, but not being a big fan of the 357 Mag (or 38 SPL plus P for that matter) I havent been drawn to the 327. The 4.0 grain load is relatively mild recoil and was accurate. I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. At 25 you can get away with a lighter load. Lucky me. Winchester only published load for WST in 38 special using lead bullets if you look at the data for the 158 data the start load goes from 3.3 Gr and a max load of 3.7 Gr. swatmag.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. The load is a great learning tool in .45 for beginner and experienced alike. Be careful !!!! The cold header swages a bullet in one or two strokes. Super-Accurate .38 Super Loads - Shooting Times Reloading Data .38 Special (Alliant Data) Metallic - Load Data Thinking of using it in NRA Action pistol or PPC. Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. These are the bullets I bought: 158 gr from Roze dist. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. Hodgdon's Basic Reloading Manual, (The free one, available for the asking. Content . You are spot on about Trail Boss, that stuff is magical with cast reloads. With all the loads available, you can surely find one within recoil tolerance. Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. Always make sure your lead bullets have been sized and lubricated. Recoil in that gun is less than most 45 ACP 1911s I have shot, and its still got around 500-600ft lbs of energy which is more than enough for feral hogs around the ranch back home. Soft shooting. They have a large selection about the hard cast loads from 90 to 170 gains. I use Bullseye powder but it's about the same burn rate. Winchester's website has data for W231 and a 125 gr LRNFP, but not plated. Bullseye 3.2gr / 763fps --> 4.2gr / 892fps (max) Unique 4.3gr / 773fps --> 5.3gr / 944fps (max) 231 3.9gr / 733fps --> 4.8gr / 896pfs (max) These are out of a 5.5 inch barrel Edited June 25, 2016 by jschweg Dr. Phil Classifieds 712 Required fields are marked *. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. 300 Blackout Fine-Tuning: Finding the Right Barrel Length for Your Rifle. But, with jacketed bullets that doesn't seen to be working. Im also impressed by the apparent durability of your Airweight J-frame. I really enjoy Trail Boss and use it extensively for plain lead and plated bullets. Just shows the importance of trying/checking the feel of a gun and if possible, test firing it, before you buy it. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. Load it like Trail Boss. I have a few 30-30 cases modified to shoot singles with a very light load. I just bought some 158 gr SWC bullets that are pure lead. The pistol or revolver of good quality is vital. And Vihtavouris N320 and N321 fall in this range for burning times. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. 9mm 125 grain RN Lead Hard Cast Bullet. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. Does anyone have any luck with Jacked Bullets. 5 are good choices. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. 750-850fps. Me too! IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. defensive ammo. Don't know of any bullets like that. Use data for weight. Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. But this piece isnt about the gun, but rather the cartridge. Reloading for it came next and it has since become my favorite pistol cartridge. 38 Special Loads - Bullseye Forum I was hoping I could use this combo to make use of available components. Handloading the .38 Special for Snubnose Revolvers 10,870. Yeah, my wifes last gun, with +P it actually HURTS! DISTINGUISHED LOADS SUCK - Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck? Try. Powered by Invision Community, 125 grain plated flat point in 38 Special. in 158 weight berry's bullet 3.8 grains of bullseye with a taper crimp. THAT TIME IS BETTER SPENT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT THE REVOLVER IN THE RAPID FIRE PORTION. 1995-2022. A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. I just dont like practicing with it. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? .38 brass isnt as common as 9, .40, or .45 brass at the range, but of all the revolver brass you can find its the most plentiful. Just want to state for the record, that with one of the more heavy duty Corbin presses it is possible to easily swage some hard cast bullets. The quality of the loads equals a bargain. Shoots well in my K-38, 686, and a friend's K-38 at 50 yards in the Ransom rest. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. What overal length of the cartridge? I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. So it is my gut feeling that Winchester found it to be touchy in smaller calibers like 38 special and 9mm Luger. 125 Gr. bullets in the 38 Special - The Firing Line Forums I have read some posts online from people who claim that it makes no difference whether the bullets are swaged or cast; and they can be loaded to the same velocity, but the swaged bullets will lead up a barrel faster because the lead is softer. 38 special , bullseye, and 125 grain lead rnfp Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting : The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and . Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. My personal loads for practice replicate my carry. And for 99% of the actual real world needs of a citizen for self defense it will work just fine. 10. I miss those days. 125: 125: 130: 135: 140: 140: 146: 148: 158: 158: 158: 170 _____ Quick Links Home Load Data Bullet Points: BE SURE TO CHECK OUT & FOLLOW MY INSTAGRAM FEED CONNECT WITH THE 1895GUNNER.COM COMMUNITY . 357 Magnum 35,000 The floor does not apply for PPC, or the equivalent match for Action Pistol. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. I have 125 grain jacketed bullets, Bullseye powder and CCI 500 primers. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. Ive saved all my .38 brass over the last couple of years for whenever I find time to get into reloading. Its hard to find those swaged SWCs and hollow point bullets anyone; it seems everyone is only interested in hard cast for velocity and penetration. (See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.). I SEE THAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT USE THE AMMO FOR D/R.